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Re: Real Basic
by Brian Kelsay 13 Mar '05

13 Mar '05

Bill Cavalieri uses it and it looks cool. Brian Kelsay >>> "Charles, Joshua " <j> 03/10/05 05:14PM >>> Has anyone worked with Real Basic at all? I know Jason Clinton had pointed me over to it once, about a year ago. It's a clone of basic, from what it looks like, but there are some rather neat features, including a built in database (single user) for your applications to use. It can also connect to other DB's out there, and anything, if you write a plugin for it. It's also got a builting 3D library, and many other cool features. http://www.realsoftware.com/realbasic/indepth/ Josh

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Administration
by Brian Densmore 11 Mar '05

11 Mar '05

So since I won't have this email address much longer, but the email address may not go away. Do I need to unsubscribe from this email address? Brian Densmore

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RE: Semi-OT: Programming Question
by Brian Densmore 11 Mar '05

11 Mar '05

> -----Original Message----- > From: Charles, Joshua Micah (UMKC-Student) > > > I've got an object model that is monolithic right now, but I want to > make it more flexible. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is how I > would implement a totally dynamic program, where everything > from the gui > to the datalayer is decided at runtime. The lines I'm thinking of now Well first off. You want to separate the gui from form data processing. By separating the gui you can "drop in" different interfaces on the fly even within the same OS and not have to worry about messing with the data processing logic (aka business logic). > is creating some high level interface, perhaps something > along the lines > of a IMenuItem, which would contain methods for access the information > needed to create a menu dynamically. I could then search through the > plugin dll's and load all the objects that implement that > interface. Of > course, I realize that this is a big performance hit, but I think the Why would you want to or need to do this? I guess, I'm not following what you want to do. Building a menu dynamically is easily implemented as a file or db table with an item number, menu name, quick key, interface type, parent item, menu position, and maybe access level or/and other features. I just rewrote somebody's menu routine and increased the speed of generation from 30+ seconds to less than 5, so performance hits can get quite large if you're not careful. Of course the 5 second menu building might seem slow, but remember in order to build the menu tree you have to traverse the entire tree. I could improve this even more by completely rewriting the code using a b-tree type algorithm, but that would require redesigning the existing table also. Something they didn't want to do and 5 seconds is acceptable in this instance. As it is, I am mimicking a b-tree as best as possible based on the data source. So you see the design of the back-end data structure is very important. > flexibility of the software will overshadow that. The clients I'm > working with now are always changing the requirements of the > software, > even after deployment, and it seems that my framework would make those > changes easier to implement (especially since even the most > minor change > wouldn't require a re-compile (or re-translation, if you want). Ah, yes ... I've dealt with clients like this.

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RE: Semi-OT: Programming Question
by Brian Densmore 11 Mar '05

11 Mar '05

> -----Original Message----- > From: D. Hageman > > ... > Seriously, I do not group C# into realm of interpreted > languages. I would > agree that the line is blurring now that we are starting to see the > compilers for interpreted languages, but one can still use those > interpreted languages as a simple tool to assist in quick > shell tricks. I'll agree with you that there is no interactive interpreter. But interpreted means it has to pass through an interpreter for the computer to use it, not through the programmer. So, I'll continue to say it is interpreted and not compiled, because that is what it is. I don't care how complex or how many bells and whistles it has in the end it's interpreted before it's usable by the bare metal. I learned how to program using machine language, and then assembly. I wrote a "compiler" inside GW-Basic in 1980. So I know a little something about compiled versus interpreted. I don't care what the MS salespitch says is compiled. So you can call it compiled since it's compiled into bytecode but then you have to call java compiled too. I disagree also that an interactive interpreter for C# would be useful. You could test out lines of code and procedures from inside it. I don't use C#, I haven't had the opportunity at work and have no need at home. At work it's all VB. Of course work is over, this job is gone and I probably won't be sending anymore email from this address. I understand your position, but still consider it wrong from a purely technical perspective. Peace, Brian "Jack" Densmore Jack of many trades, master of a few. Don't know jack about brain surgery, but if you hum a few bars I could argue about that one too. ;')

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Re: Semi-OT: Programming Question
by Brian Kelsay 11 Mar '05

11 Mar '05

Are you saying he don't know jack? Apparently you don't know Jack. He's Brian Densmore. OK, resume your breakfast. Move along, nothing to see here. Brian Kelsay >>> "D. Hageman" <> 03/11/05 02:56AM >>> You are over simplifying what C# and the Common Language Infrastructure (CLI) really is. Getting into the details of this could be an essay. If you are curious I recommend you read a bit more before taking what is written by "Jack" as fact. Seriously, interpreted language? pfft. Big difference between python, perl, scheme, lisp, etc. and C#.

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Semi-OT: Programming Question
by Charles, Joshua Micah (UMKC-Student) 11 Mar '05

11 Mar '05

I'm working on an application framework idea that I've had, and have ran into the following problem. My original (rough) design called for a monolithic core that provided the main functionality I was looking for, and would be extensible via plugins. I then realized, though, that my software would be much more flexible if I started out with a plugin framework, and made all functionality compartmentalized into plugins. That way if a user doesn't want some functionality, they don't need to install that plugin. The problem I'm running into is trying to figure out exactly how I am going to implement it. I've read a book on design patterns, and have done some good research on google, but it seems most of the documentation I'm finding is very basic (i.e. how to dynamically load a dll, and execute the code it contains.) Here's where I'm at right now. I can load a third party dll into my program and execute the code, but I can't quite figure out how to make it interact with dynamic data. Should I create large object that contain the data, and when the plugin is called, through an event of some sort, just pass in that object? I'm also considering going through the MyPhpNuke code to see how they do it in PHP. Would this be helpful even though it's a interepreted language, and I'm using a compiled language (C#)? I'm also looking at the option for doing all the extensions through a scripting language, but that seems to me to cause other problems. What I would really want is to have complex plugins that are encapsulated into a single dll. Distribution would be made via a zip file, which would contain the zip file, a SQL file ( containing any modifications to the database needed), a manifest file ( with version information ), documentation, and a xml config file that will hold any needed configuration settings. Another option would be that I provide an interface to keep all configuration in a single place, which might be more elegant. I've been reading through the RainbowPortal code to try to figure out exactly how they did it, but the fine points elude me. Does anyone know of any good documentation that can get me to the next step? Thanks, Josh

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Re: DB2
by csappenfield＠kc.rr.com 11 Mar '05

11 Mar '05

----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Hull <dphull(a)insipid.com> Date: Thursday, March 10, 2005 10:27 am Subject: Re: DB2 > Quoting Jonathan Hutchins <hutchins(a)tarcanfel.org>: > > > Ok, aparantly my brain concatenated "IBM Released a database to > Open Source" > > with "DB2 is IBM's big deal". Thanks for the clarification. > > > > There used to be a series of PC databases - DB II, DB III, DB > IV. What ever > > happened to those? > > I'm sorry to report that those are still alive and kicking... and > screaming. > -- Databases rarely ever die. If a DB application doesn't require much, people don't replace their old applications. And if it does require much, it's very difficult to switch out the underlying DB, because things like concurrency models are implemented differently in every DB.

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Re: DB2
by csappenfield＠kc.rr.com 10 Mar '05

10 Mar '05

It's the scheme whereby the DB keeps concurrent users from stomping each other's data. So, when you switch DBs, you find things like locks where you never saw them before. ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Kelsay <Brian.Kelsay(a)kcc.usda.gov> Date: Thursday, March 10, 2005 12:43 pm Subject: Re: DB2 > What is a concurrency model? > It's the scheme whereby the DB keeps concurrent users from stomping each other's data. So, when you switch DBs, you find things like locks where you never saw them before.

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Re: DB2
by Brian Kelsay 10 Mar '05

10 Mar '05

What is a concurrency model? Brian Kelsay >>> <csappenfield(a)kc.rr.com> 03/10/05 09:37AM >>> <snip> , it's very difficult to switch out the underlying DB, because things like concurrency models are implemented differently in every DB.

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RE: Databases
by Brian Densmore 10 Mar '05

10 Mar '05

> -----Original Message----- > From: James Sissel > > > >>> There used to be a series of PC databases - DB > > II, DB III, DB IV. > > >>> Whatever happened to those? > > Better dBase products came out that were cheaper (MUCH > cheaper). Hmm... I've still got a copy of dBase IV boxed up somewhere. Maybe I should dust it off and re-install it? Nah, I remember that crazy weird interface they had. > > > What other databases have died anybody? > > It's not dead but it might as well be. The best damn > PC based database ever written. FoxPro! They were > well ahead of their time. And then Micro$oft bought > them out. FoxPro is long from dead. I've seen no less than a dozen job advertisements wanting FoxPro experts. Also saw a job advert for a Linux programmer in Wichita. I'll post/send a link if anyone is interested. I wasn't qualified, and it's a bit far to travel for me. > > They came out with a very buggy version 2.5 and then > charged you $20 for the patches which they called > version 2.6. Version 3 was a piece of crap. Version > 4 went ???? because the next version was version 5. > Starting Version 3 good old Micro$oft killed the dbase > language and put in their Visual Basic (gag, choke). > > Of course Micro$oft already had their "database" > product called Access. Which is why M$ bought FoxPro, so they could kill it. > > I pray for the day that Micro$oft goes under. You'll be praying a long time. M$ is too big and rich to go under. It might happen, but not likely in any of our lifetimes. Here's my predictions regarding M$ and Linux: Linux attains 50% of the server market - 2007 Linux attains 10% of the desktop market - 2008 Linux attains 50% of the server base - 2012 Linux attains 10% of the desktop base - 2015 Linux attains 70% of the server base - 2015 Bill Gates retires - 2020 Microsoft releases LinuxOffice - 2020 Linux attains 50% of the desktop market - 2020 Linux attains 80% of the server base - 2020 Linux attains 50% of the desktop base - 2025 Microsoft opensources Windows - 2030 Linux attains 90% of the server base - 2020 Linux attains 70% of the desktop market - 2040 Linux attains 70% of the desktop base - 2045

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